hober: like that it's simple

hober: wanted more from explainer; seems to be missing relevant technology such as podcasts.

hober: audiobooks get very long & large, using a zip file seems maybe suboptimal, the audio is already compressed..?

hober: I assume they have thought of all these things, but I don't see documentation in the explainer of why they were not used

dbaron: did you see the use cases doc for web publications? It seems relevant

hober: I was reminder of torgo's doc on ethical technology principles - having a living document on priority of contituencies. This seems like a case of don't reinvent the wheel - the explainer should make a case as to why this isn't doing that.

cynthia: Right, none of the considered alternatives explain why those were decided against

hober: agreed; it's missing both obvious alternatives and rationales

dbaron: not sure what ePub had for audiobooks in the past.

torgo: do we want them to think about web packaging? We've talked to the ePub people about that before. There's some kind of workshop coming up on this. Is there an obvious, more "webby" approach not listed in the considered alternative that we could encourage them to use?

dbaron: seems possible. I made some notes on the web publications review - audiobooks is the first "sub-spec" of web publications. A bunch of the issues here are related to packaging and how packaging relates to origins and URLs, there were some interesting things in the requirements doc but I haven't gotten to look at how they address those in the spec yet.

torgo: Should we provide this feedback and then bump this two weeks?

hober: Sure, I can try and capture my thoughts on the issue.

dbaron: I won't be here then

torgo: Let's do one week then.

Sangwan: I've looked into this. It's a playlist format, with a bit more. An M3u file plus more. Specificially type 2 audio, while it seems liek it would be related to the ISO BFF web resource packaging would be interested in as well. There is no synchronisation, and there is no 'web' in here. So... it feels like this is a very specific fetaure, but it could fit in to a lot more use cases that they don't seem to be interested in.

I commented: if you do a regex from MP3 to MP4, you've basically just defined the DVD chapter format. A bit weird.

And just no web stuff in here.

Hadley: How did it come to us?

Sangwhan: they used the manifest format they defined for web publications. Subset of publishing... the manifest can have arbitrary resources, including web content. Audiobook part is publishing packages, but only for mp3 files.

I feel like this is a bit short-sighted.

Dan: Is there anything un-web here? Different identifiers besides URLs, etc? HOw is this different to RSS?

Sangwhan: It's JSON instead of XML

Dan: I@m not sure that the criticism that it's not webby... Is there a more webby approach that we can suggfest they take?

Sangwhan: Not criticising that, just a basic remark. There is the entry page which is hte bare minimum. Looks like this would have to be repeated for video, and other formats too. That concerns me.

Hadley: So you'd rather it be done in a generaliseable way?

Sangwhan: Yeah, the publications part is general, and the audio files is a specific use case. But video will have to reinvent their own thing, which is currently ISOBFF, and I'm not convinced that's the best way to do this.

So I'd like to see these two efforts merged.

Hadley: Makes sense to me.

Dan: It does seem like... in their considered alternatives, they have this one thing about ePub 3 audiobooks, and they don't explain why they're not doing that.

Sangwhan: Agreed. I'll add that to the issue.

Dan: Do we need a really specific... It's great to have a teasing-out-the-requirements-of-audiobooks... but do we need something specific to them?

Sangwhan: this is a subset of functionality that they're doing.

Dan: I'm going to be in really cold Canada next week, and I might try to chat to Tsviya... and get a bit more context.

Sangwhan: This is a valid use case for video, so I'd like to explore that.

Kenneth: Who would be using this? Apps like netflix for audiobooks? Audible?

Sangwhan: Basically Americans. I think they use their own thing, (probably some variant of) the pocket mobi format.

Dan: What is the use of audiobooks worldwide?

Sangwhan: They're more common in America because of the drives.

Peter: agreed

Kenneth: and then they need HTML at that point?

Sangwhan: You'd use HTML to push a button to say "play chapter 2"

...I will write feedback; Dan you talk to Tsviya -- and let's talk after that.

• First-Party Sets - @dbaron, @torgo

Dan: Comments from mkwst. David (who is not here today) had some comments. Does anyone have feedback? Or should we wait?

(Hears silence)

Alice: Looks like mkwst had some plans to do work on the explainer, might take some time.

Dan: Any time sensitivity?

Alice: Probably not.

...Punt for two weeks (when David is back)

JUMPBACK:

Lukasz: I will write feedback about this on the issue.

Dan: Might be useful to mention the use cases. With the new restrictions of 3p cookies on the platform, there are considerations that should be taken when designing features like this.

GOTO PORTALS;

Tess: last i remember we were pending external feedback from tsvia

Dan: i am due to talk to her tomorrow about web publications review

Tess: in addition to punting this until we hear back from T, there was conversaiton on audiobooks

Dan: also 345.

Dan: I had a call with Tsviya about both of these a couple of days ago. They're working on our feedback. In 344 there has been some back-and-forth, some of which was orthogonal to the main review. Tzviya noted that; the ball is in their court because they're looking to update the spec, in particular to address the issues David raised. We should probably revisit at the f2f.

Dan: Milestone update.

Dan: Regarding audiobooks, they're going to be updating the explainer.

Tess: Most of my feedback was questions that could have been answered in the explainer.

Dan: Some of the decisions they've taken in the spec are driven by specific stakeholder needs, and this should be noted in the explainer. Trying to balance concerns between web community and publishing community. Hoping they have an updated explainer we can take a look at at the f2f; ball is in their court, issue is pending external feedback.

Dan: Tzviya is looking for feedback also on how to make TPAC more welcoming to new people.