#978: CSS reading-flow property

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Opened Jul 31, 2024

こんにちは TAG-さん!

I'm requesting a TAG review of the CSS reading-flow property.

The CSS Working Group has resolved to add the new reading-flow property (https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/8589, spec) to enable focus navigation in visual order for layout items that might not be displayed in source order (such as grid, flex and masonry items). Chromium is implementing the new property and opened a https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/10407 on the needed HTML spec change.

Further details:

  • I have reviewed the TAG's Web Platform Design Principles
  • Relevant time constraints or deadlines: hoping to ship this property soon.
  • The group where the work on this specification is currently being done: CSS Working Group, WHATWG
  • The group where standardization of this work is intended to be done (if current group is a community group or other incubation venue): CSS Working Group, WHATWG
  • Major unresolved issues with or opposition to this specification: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9230
  • This work is being funded by: Google

Discussions

2024-10-07

Minutes

Matthew: i'm researching - we discussed at TPAC - a fundamental question is : we did talk about this in CSS but the minutes haven't appeared yet.

Yves: finds minutes and minutes

Matthew: will look more into it and see if question I had was answered... A question I had around the whole conversation of reading order. Talking about focus navigation and not how the DOM order is exposed - virtual cursor navigation. That follows the DOM order. There's been discussion on whether that needs to change as well.

... tables or things that look like tables...

... the current stuff, good progress is being made...

2024-10-14

Minutes

Matthew: Haven't reviewed this yet.

2024-10-21

Minutes

Ditto

2024-11-04

Minutes

Matthew: a few thoughts... some general issues - and specific a11y discussions. I haven't seen anything in this proposal that's concerning. But a couple of things - reading the spec from the CSS WHATWG side... About reading flow in general ... Specific words & phrases might have an a11y implication - e.g. sequential navigation order is clear, but "speech order" is being referred to in the spec... https://drafts.csswg.org/css-display-4/#order-accessibility CSS WG is capable... But APA and CSS might need to get together to understand these common terms... So no specific concerns about this review but I think APA needs to talk to CSS... Action on me. ... when I read the spec it's more focused on the order of interactive elements... could supersede tab index.

Jeffrey: my sense is that this should affect the a11y tree. No definition of how html turns into an a11y tree...

Matthew: one interesting thing - talks about the difference between source order and display order. If it does effect a11y tree then why not just reorder source?

Tess: The a11y tree comes from the render tree. But different ATs are different.

some discussion on this point

Peter: would be good to have a reference in the CSS spec.

Matthew: also the explainer is in a personal repo.

Jeffrey: Will poke. It should be in "explainers by googlers"...

Matthew: "render to speech" different from the "focus order".

Jeffrey: it's the wrong term, regardless... Seems like a good issue to file with CSS.

Peter: just go ahead and post your points to the public thread.