Matthew: the PR to HTML has been merged... And I'm aware that there's an existing similar thing input.shoePicker method... couple of questions - one is about use cases. Issue of focus management was brought up. Not clear to me. Another question - more practical - how it behaves on certain devices.

matthew to ask questions on the issue

Matthew: developer ask was cited as justification - yes developers are asking for it but not saying what they're going to use it for - so not clear what the use cases will be. I can see "open attribute" - another is "programatically open"... not clear what that is. A particular solution has bee chosen... the ship may have sailed but would be good to know what they're trying to do. If they want to open the popup because of a user action I'd err on the side of not doing focus management... I think they're not doing focus management...

we agree we will come back to it at the plenary

reassigned and we decided not to talk about it this week

Matt: no progress since we posted that issue... right now it's open - our main concern is consistency... We're hoping if we need to change what the default is that it's still new enough to do that. I'd like to post on this WHATWG thread... to encourage them to come back and let us know "this is why we think it would be the default behaviour"... OK? I will subset the TAG comment. Some assistive tech people have said "you should do this" some platform providers "you should do that"...

Dan: Sounds good to me.

Matthew: no movement on the thread... but in the WHATWG thread it's still open - one of APA's members commented on this. There are some people in that thread who are in a position to make a change if it's needed. It looks like we're still in an area where we could positively impact the consistency issue... So I'll bump the WHATWG thread... When I bump, I will let Lea know. The one thing we've (TAG) asked for - to show the picker (but it's whether it gets focussed or not) - we need to make call of what the use case is... Is common use case one where it gets focus, or not? [what is the default].

Note from Breakout A: @matatk pinged on the WHATWG thread

Matthew: I pinged them in the WHATWG thread.

we re-assign to a later breakout - breakout D

Matthew: there is an update - last month I posted a comment on the WHATWG issue - to make sure our advice was imparted to a wider group. There has been some feedback. Looks like feedback from use cases they have experienced as a developer. Quite extensive feedback. But no more discussion from the people involved... I can have a look at the developer feedback. Our main concern was consistency. There's a window of opportunity if needed. Between all of us we thought of cases on both sides. It needs to be consistent & documented and there needs to be an escape hatch. There was a subplot involving whether the picker or the control can be focused and that hasn't been resolved. Potentially some confusion here...

we agree we should keep monitoring and we can re-review at the f2f

Matthew: last things that happened were - we asked for more info on the TAG thread... looking at more use cases... desire for consistency... we didn't get any response... then I posted on the whatwg thread paraphrasing our concerns on there.. No input on that thread at all except for a comment from a web developer... So I don't know if we're missing some other place where this is being discussed... so not much progress. The concern is that the longer it goes on the longer the current behaviour is entrenched. We might propose to put a note in the spec to expand on any a11y issues.

Dan: what was the feedback from the web developer?

Matthew: it's about what they think the typical use case is... mostly coming down on one side of that... The thing we're concerned about is... we've had time to think about use cases one way or the other way but we are concerned with the default...

Matthew: posted a comment to check on status