Peter: looks like a bunch of discussion on that one.

David: I think mostly Rossen and Dan.

Peter: I also want it to cover things like desktops and multiple monitors.

Hadley: If that's the case, does the name need to change?

David: I think some (Dan, Rossen?) didn't want this to be multi-monitor.

Ken: I also had that position: multi-monitor is very generic. Monitor positions can be arbitrary. Google had 2 proposals for finance use cases: window enumeration API. This is really for things that are connected with a possible seam with no display. This should be as simple as possible for existing content, treated as one viewport. I think that's the right approach. Treating this as different screens you'll get few developers optimizing app for those use cases.

Peter: I'm not saying different screens in the sense of multiple viewports.

Kenneth: Approach here is one viewport.

Peter: I know people with multiple monitors that are still one viewport, a window dragged across, with some gaps in the middle.

Kenneth: I think that's a minority use case. Even if you create the API that could work with these cases, developers won't test on those cases, it will break on other devices. All thees other configurations that people would have to test as well.

Peter: Also half a dozen configurations of foldable screens and people won't test on those either. Microsoft has an emulator. Mac historically had UI where you can tell OS what monitor configuration is.

Kenneth: I'm worried this would make API much more complex. At least API should be designed so it wouldn't break if configuration is a bit nonstandard... opt in to supporting an unusual configuration, e.g., with media queries.

Peter: Certain things like aligning grid column widths or row to these screen gaps.

Peter: The future heading to foldable screens. Microsoft heading short term solution with a physical hinge because foldable screens aren't there yet; I think that's a stopgap measure that won't be there in 3-5 years. Or foldable screens will fall out of fashion entirely. Multi-screen desktop has been around for use, more likely to be around longer in the future.

Kenneth: More likely tablet/laptop than phones, but support phones too.

Peter: I've seen laptops with 3 screens that fold out.

Kenneth: Intel has done it, a lot of different prototypes.

Kenneth: I think Microsoft hinge way will stay for a while; issues with foldable screens.

Kenneth: I think API should definitely work whether a visible hinge or not -- should work with both cases. I'm told this does. Dan has other point that even if you have screen above the fold, still want to know where the fold is, reflection and animations etc. Maybe a different environment variable similar to the other one. Still fine if you have ideas to make this more generic, but don't want to make it too complicated for the simple cases.

Peter: I saw yesterday video made with a foldable flip phone. When they folded the phone it stopped crossing the ???. So adapted when the angle of the hinge change.

Kenneth: I hope Dan can bring Samsung devices to face-to-face

Rossen: the proposal came around a month ago - a response to new devices announced last year - by Microsoft and before that by Samsung. Idea is to have capability to decide if something spans multiple screens (1) and then - if it does where is the hinge? The API has a number of iterations - final one they came up with in MS is that it provides a media query. One discussion that came is - address second screen or multiple screen. Yes we can extend for multiple screens... ... not sufficient use cases... in windows we introduce APIs that can give you an idea of where the hinges are... bottom line the current proposal doesn't preclude multiple / second screen scenarios... CSS group favourable to it...

Ken: i think it's fine ...

Dan: some Samsung stuff.. around folding continuous screens vs separate screens...

Rossen: triggering animations with environment variable that changes... position of the fold could trigger animations... Multiple different scenarios - where the hinge is - would grow... we have scenarios where you have a super bar ... (area that is used for something else - e.g. buttons). Very aligned...

Ken: on the Samsung phone you still have a display on the hinge..¢.

Rossen: on our devices the hinge is physical but we also have software that extends the area where the app thinks the hinge is...

Kenneth: i think this is the right approach - right direction in my opinion...

[discussion on angle]

Ken: wouldn't angle be a separate API?

Rossen: there could be many folds by the way... not just one.

Dan: there is at least one out there with 2 folds...

Rossen: many prototypes out there...